Rambouillet
& A Homer Hilsen
Frames by Rivendell
These two frames are so similar, I've decided to keep tham on the same page, at least until I think of a reason not to. If you start from the Rambouillet, the Hilsen has longer chainstays, by one centimeter. It also requires longer caliper brakes, because it has clearance for larger tires. Once my next shipment of Rambouillet frames arrives in the fall of 2008, you'll be able to choose between two quite similar frames. Essentially the Rambouillet is great for fast day riding with the racer wannabees, brevets and credit card touring. The Hilsen is more into the loaded touring category. when you put full panniers on it, the handling will be a bit more stable than if you load down the Rambouillet. And with fat tires on the Hilsen, dirt roads will be more comfortable to ride on all day.
So for now the text below is what it has been ever since I started selling the Rambouillet frames several years ago. Virtually everything written here applies to the Hilsen, with the caveats above. And, as of April 2008, we have Hilsens in stock from 54cm to 65cm. 54cm and 56cm use 650b wheels. The 57cm through 65cm use 700c wheels. As soon as I have time, I'll list maximum tire sizes I'm happy recommending, with and without fenders. My recommendations have been a bit more conservative that Rivendell's recommendations in the past. I usually recommend a smaller maximum tire size with fenders than Riv does. It is somewhat personal preference; essentially how risk averse you are. The smaller the gap between the tire and the fender, the easier it is for something to get caught in there. I like lots of space; some people are happy with less. My recommendations are only that; recommendations. You're the one riding the bike, and accepting the risks that come with our favorite outdoor activity.
While at the moment we have very few Rambouillet frames available, we have arranged to have anther production run of these wonderful frames made. I don't yet have firm date when they will be available, but they are planned to be here by October of 2008. The color isn't set at this point, but you can be sure it will be a very attractive bike. See below for our current stock.
What's a Rambouillet? There are two ways to think of it. It's either a racing frame with a bit longer wheelbase, because the chainstays are longer; and provides a higher handlebar position, because the top tube slopes upwards a bit, and the headtube is extended; and there's lots of tire and fender clearance. Or it's a touring bike with a wheelbase that's too short for carrying heavy loads, so it's perfect for weekend tours where you're staying at B&Bs or hotels and don't need a tent, sleeping bag and lots of clothes.
In short, it's a bike for someone who wants a really comfortable and stable ride. There is clearance for pretty large tires, which make the ride smoother. Larger tires aren't necessarily slower, if they're high quality. And they make a huge difference if you're doing long distances in a day, because they soak up road shock. The seat tube is set back more, to take weight off of your hands, and help you enjoy the scenery.
We have some blue and some green Rambouillet frames in stock, and we get more all the time. They sell for $1500. Price for the October 2008 frames has not yet been set, but $1500 is in the ballpark. Orange frames are all gone.
If you buy a complete bicycle kit with our components, you'll get a 10% discount on most of the components, and $50 off the frame price. The only components I don't discount are those items we distribute to bike shops such as the Busch&Müller and Schmidt lighting systems and Pitlock skewers. But pretty much everything else you buy with a complete bike kit gets the 10% discount. I charge $100 to fully assemble a bicycle; $200 if you're supplying the frame. Yup, we do that too. ;-)
Peter's Rambouillet, 58cm
This is my personal 58cm Rambouillet. If you're very well behaved, you could take it for a test ride. But if you're naughty...
The wheels have Dura Ace hubs, Mavic MA-3 silver rims, Continental Ultra 3000 700x28 tires. Drive train is Ultegra Triple, with 9 speed downtube shifters, 13-25 Ultegra cassette, Sachs chain, TA Zephyr 175mm crankset with 50-40-26 rings, TA Axix Light bottom bracket, TA Auto-Extractors, Shimano 747 SPD pedals. Shimano R600 long reach calipers, Dia Compe BRS500 brake levers, 3ttt handlebar and stem, Cinelli cork tape. Salsa seatpost and Brooks B17 Champion Special. The saddlebag is a Carradice Nelson Longflap.
A Homer Hilsen note: While the Rambouillet spaces the rear at 132.5mm, to take either 130mm or 135mm hubs, the Hilsen is spaced at 135mm. So road hubs like Dura Ace aren't suitable for the Hilsen.
You'll notice that all of the bikes pictured here have triple cranksets. You can have your Rambouillet with a double if you prefer. I just haven't gotten around to photographing one with a double crankset.
This is also my Rambouillet, with a few miles on it. I've added a Bagman support for the Carradice Nelson Longflap. I decided I wanted the bag held in a more upright position. It's much easier loading groceries now. I've also retired the Silca pump in favor of a Topeak that fits inside the bag. And the Nitto "R" cages are really cute.
A customer's Rambouillet, 62cm
This bike is fitted out with a Shimano drive train, mostly Ultegra 9 speed, but with a TA Alize triple crankset, black chainrings, Dura Ace hubs and Mavic MA-3 rims. The saddle bag is by Ortlieb. Terry Liberator Men's saddle on a Salsa post. Speedplay Frog pedals.
Another customer's Rambouillet, 56cm
This bike is similar to my own, using Dura Ace downtube 9 speed shifters and Ultegra Triple derailleurs. The hubs are Ultegra. Rolly Poly tires from Rivendell. Shimano R600 brake levers and calipers. These are the long reach version of the Ultegra dual pivot sidepulls. The crank is a TA Alize on a TA Axix Light bottom bracket. Nitto handlebar and stem, wrapped with Cinelli cork tape.
This Rambouillet is fitted with a mix of TA, Shimano and Campagnolo components. The crank is a TA Zephyr on a TA Axix bottom bracket. The shifters and rear derailleur is Campagnolo 9 speed. The hubs are Shimano Dura Ace. In order to have smooth indexed shifting with the mix of Shimano and Campy, the cassette is a Wheels Manufacturing modified Ultegra. The cogs are spaced wider than normal Shimano to index with Campy shifters. While this combination technically works, I don't recommend it, since the margin for error is tiny, there being so little space between the largest cog and the spokes. But the customer usually gets what the customer wants. ;-)
To use Ergo shifters with Shimano rear hubs and cassettes, I recommend the ShiftMate adapter.
A Homer Hilsen note: Since Campy only makes 130mm rear hubs, you might think that Campy drive trains won't work with the Hilsen. But! I have a few tricks up my sleeves if you just have to have Ergo on board.
This customer wanted to wrap the handlebars himself.
Campy Racing Triple rear derailleur
I haven't been recommending Campagnolo drive trains for many years due to the high dish of the rear wheels. But Velocity has recently made their terrific Aerohead rim available in an off center version, which dramatically reduces the dish, making it possible to build very strong wheels with Campagnolo cassette hubs. I can now wholeheartedly recommend Campagnolo components with Rambouillet frames. Everything will work except the brake calipers. Campagnolo doesn't yet make a long reach brake caliper. Just use the very fine Shimano Ultegra long reach calipers instead. Everything is compatible, and it looks right.
Zephyr cranks with Auto-Extractors on an Axix BB
These gorgeous Zephyr cranks haven't been made in many years. As of April 2008, I have no more triples, but I do have some doubles left in stock.
On frames with 130mm rear axle spacing, TA cranks can usually be installed with neutral chainline. That means the middle ring on a triple is in the same geometric plane as the middle cog on a 9 speed cassette. But the Rambouillet chainstays are slightly wider spaced than on most frames. So the crankset has to be placed a couple of millimeters to the outside. This is done with a longer bottom bracket. Rather than using a 122mm axle with the Zephyr crank, a 125mm axle is used. The Alize goes from a 113mm axle to a 116 when installed on the Rambouillet. The difference is tiny, not enough to adversely affect the drive train. In fact, it puts the TA chainrings in the same position as the Shimano triple cranks, which all put the chainrings slightly off to the right.
Shimano does it because they want to use one BB axle length for all frames. Frames with oversized seat tubes need long BB axles to place the chainrings to the outside. This is because the large seat tube places the front derailleur further to the right. If the chainrings are in the neutral chainline position, the front derailleur can't move far enough inboard to shift the chain onto the inner chainring. The derailleur bumps into the frame!
The chainstays of the Rambouillet frame are spaced a bit wider than on most frames to make lots of room for wide tires and fenders. If the cranks are installed with perfectly neutral chainline and a standard 130mm road hub, the inner ring will hit the right chainstay socket of the bottom bracket shell. Changing the axle to one a bit longer eliminates the problem.
You can have neutral chainline on a Rambouillet if you use a 135mm rear axle hub, such as a Shimano XT, XTR or a Phil Wood. That moves the cassette slightly to the right and lines it up with the cranks. I chose to use a 130mm rear hub on mine, since the amount that the chainline is off is so small. Some times it's fun to split hairs.
TA Alize cranks with Ultegra Triple derailleurs. Very quick and smooth shifting, and you can get the chainring sizes you want.
Frame:$ 1,500.00 with Shimano Ultegra headset.
Other headsets are available, including King sealed bearing headsets and Campagnolo.
50cm and 52cm frames use 26" (559mm) wheels.
Rambouillet Sizing Chart
| Size | Seat Angle | Head Angle | Fork Rake | Top Tube | Chain Stay | BB Drop |
Stand Over clearance |
| 50/50 | 73 | 71 | 4.5 | 53 | 44 | 55 | 74.2 |
| 52/52 | 73 | 71 | 4.5 | 53 | 44 | 55 | 76.1 |
| 54/54 | 72.5 | 72.0 | 4.75 | 55.0 | 43.5 | 7.7 | 79.1 |
| 56/56 | 72.0 | 72.5 | 4.5 | 55.5 | 43.5 | 7.7 | 80.8 |
| 58/58 | 72.0 | 73.0 | 4.25 | 57.0 | 43.5 | 7.7 | 82.8 |
| 60/60 | 72.0 | 73.0 | 4.25 | 58.0 | 44.5 | 7.7 | 84.7 |
| 62/62 | 72.0 | 73.0 | 4.25 | 59.0 | 44.5 | 7.7 | 86.6 |
| 64/64 | 72.0 | 73.0 | 4.25 | 60.0 | 44.5 | 7.7 | 88.5 |
| 66/66 | 72.5 | 73.0 | 4.25 | 61.0 | 45.0 | 7.7 | 90.5 |
| 68/68 | 72.0 | 73.0 | 4.25 | 62.0 | 45.0 | 7.7 | 92.4 |
Updated, February 4, 2008
A Homer Hilsen sizing chart coming soon. 54 through 65cm in stock now.
I have a parts kit and can convert either of the remaining 700c frames to the complete bike as spec'ed out by Rivendell. The price is $2500. a rather good deal.
In the size column, the number on the left indicates we have the frame in stock. The number on the right means we have the bike in stock. Bikes are the new green color, frames are the earlier blue color. If the number is black, it means it's out of stock.
50cm and 52cm Rambouillets use 26" wheels, just like mountain bikes. But you won't use knobby tires on these. There are very nice road tires available in the 559mm 26" mountain bike size. The smaller wheel size makes for a much better fitting bike for shorter riders.
50cm, 52cm, 66cm and 68cm sizes have been discontinued by Rivendell. So if you see that size in black, that means we'll never have them again. But I'm leaving up the size chart so that someone wanting to know the geometry can still find it. These frames will last a long time and probably pass through many hands.
All dimensions
are in centimeters, unless stated otherwise. Seat tube and head tube
measurements are given in degrees. All frames are measured from the
center of the bottom bracket to the top of the top tube. The frames
you see pictured all came with double eyelets on the rear dropouts.
Later production Rambouillets have single eyelets on the rear dropouts.
If this is an issue, let me know and I can tell you which dropout is
on a frame before I build it up for you.
Top tube lengths are
effective, measured parallel to the ground. The top tube slopes 2 degrees
upward toward the front of the bike, to help raise the handlebars into
a more comfortable position.
Rambouillet rear axle spacing is 132.5mm, splitting the difference between road and mountain hubs. The frame will easily accept either 130mm or 135mm rear hubs. A 135mm rear hub with nine speed cassette gives slightly better chainline with a triple crankset, but the difference is almost academic. A Homer Hilsen is 135mm.
Many riders prefer a Chris King headset and I can swap out the Shimano headset if you like. The price is $140. which includes precision milling of the frame's headtube and the fork crown with my Campagnolo milling tools.
Stand over height is measured midway along the top tube, from the ground to the top of the tube. Stand over heights given are for bikes with Rolly-Poly (700x27) tires installed.
Many component options including bar end shifters, downtube shifters, Dura Ace and Ultegra stems, Specialites TA Alize, Zephyr Light double or Carmina cranksets, TA or Phil Wood bottom brackets, Chris King or Campagnolo Record OR headset, 9 or 10 speed Dura Ace components, 9 or 10 speed Campagnolo components, and many saddlebags and lighting systems. With TA cranksets, you have many more crank lengths to choose from. Carbon fiber fenders from Gilles BERTHOUD are perfect for the Rambouillet. I have many wider fenders as well in both stainless steel, and aluminum/plastic sandwich.
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This page updated: Friday, May 9, 2008
Peter White Cycles
24 Hall Rd.
Hillsborough, NH 03244
USA
603 478 0900 Phone
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